Lighting

[grumbles]

i really hate to talk about stuff related to running when we can be talking about food, but
any suggestions on lighting for night time running?

there’s a lot of opinions/info on other run forums, but a lot of the info is fairly old, and as you might expect with this crowd, there seems to be no consensus whatsoever. i would think that led’s would be the way to go, just due to lower power consumption, but i’m not even sure there’s any agreement on that.

so maybe the question should be: does anyone out there have a light solution for night running that just totally works?

or how about: the people who run at night and seem to know what they’re doing -- what do they use?

the ideal solution would be reliable, simple, and cheap, probably in that order. what i’m looking for is just for running really early morning before it gets so insanely hot, but i’d think the ideal setup should work for everything -- long night runs, rain, whatever.

[katemojo]

good idea. I have the same questions...glad you are asking. Early morning runs- yes- it has been 109 here :<

[kent]

I use a Gerber LX 3.0 handheld LED flashlight. It's a little bigger and heavier than others but it is a rock-solid tank of a flashlight. It fits very comfortably in my hand. On/off is via twisting the tail cap. For an overnight run I need to change the batteries about 1/2 through the night as the light starts to fade (AA batteries). If you are running on technical trails you might want to add a second light (headlamp or waist-lamp) to give you better depth perception. A good website for impartial reviews is www.flashlightreviews.com. In the end, it's all a matter of personal preference.

[Pacific Coast Trail Runs]

We use only handheld lights, and have used a variety of LED lights over the years. (Actually, we started running trail ultras long before LED lights were readily available, if even invented yet!). We only use headlamps for crewing or reading in the tent, not on trails since there's no depth perception with them - the light source is too close to your eyes.

Right now, we usually use just a 3 LED from REI that takes AAA batteries and we clip a 1 LED to the end for emergencies. The combination is small enough that we carry them at almost all times - you never know when you'll be out after dark. For really technical trails, like a technical hundred miler, I'll carry a 14 LED that takes 3 C batteries - it's heavier, of course, but I can see anything all night long.

None of our lights require changing the batteries during the night - something that is a BIG difference from the old days, when we had to carry extra bulbs and batteries with us at all times!

I love night running - my favorite time to run, actually. My friend, Nadia, and I get together as often as we can at sunset to run all night or at 4:00 a.m. to get in some miles before we really start our day.

Sarah

[Pacific Coast Trail Runs]

www.rei.com/product/695300?vcat=REI_SEARCH

That's the light we almost always have with us. And here's the little one we clip on the ring for emergencies - it's amazingly bright and will definitely get you where you need to go if you run out of daylight.

www.rei.com/product/632461?vcat=REI_SEARCH

Some people spend a fortune on lights, which is fine - but I've given away those Photon lights to people without flashlights coming down from Whitney and not had to worry about getting them back.

Sarah

[ultrajegi]

I've tried a fair amount of lights ... and I like gadgets

IMO, the best handheld lights you can get are lights with Cree LED's. They are about twice as bright as luxeon LEDs at about the same energy consumption (i.e. battery life). My latest one is a Fenix L2D-CE. Two AA Energizer Lithium batteries will last between 2.5-6 hours (depending on mode). Many people don't like to change batteries, but this light is BRIGHT (brighter than the popular Gerber LX3 (which I also used before) and far lighter) and only as big as a 2AA Mag lite, and changing batteries is quick. Note that the Energizer Lithium batteries - while expensive - are only half as heavy as regular batteries. You can get the fenix lights at zombie runner and various other websites.

I also always use a headlamp in addition to a handheld. In foggy situations, I turn the headlamp off, but it's often sufficient and less bothersome than a handheld. I prefer the Princeton Tec Apex (not the Apex Pro) which runs on 4 AA batteries (again, use Energizer Lithium). I also heard Brunston or so makes a very bright headlamp.

Note if you use regular alkaline batteries these lights will not work well. I find it well worth the price though. The lights are not cheap, around 60 for the Fenix and 80 for the headlamp. Both of those lights don't fade since they're heavily regulated, as opposed to e.g. the LX3 which fades rather quickly (eyes adapt though).
Btw, do NOT use the Energizer batteries in the Gerber LX 3.0, since it may damage the light (they don't have higher voltage, but due to better energy delivery it'll cause the lamp to overheat).

The usefulness of absolute brightness is debatable, btw, since your eyes do some amount of adjustment. I am sure less bright lights will do the trick just fine, too (For example Princeton Tec makes a 4AA Luxeon 1W handheld lamp which lasts for a very long time). If you do runwith someone else though it's very distracting if your light is not as bright as the other person's - that's something to keep in mind when running with a pacer. That said, I like a good bright light, and if you want to run fast, it helps - and with two lights, you can maintain your peripheral vision while checking out the trail ahead ...

Also always have a button emergency light available. I actually bring a small fenix P1D-CE which is bright enough as a main light, but very small.

A great site for flashlight reviews is here: www.flashlightreviews.com Unfortunately it's no longer maintained, but still quite up-to date.

Happy running!
Beat

[grumbles]

o my goodness, this is too perfect. now i have a weekend project: wade through the info and make a choice. will post what i ended up with when i figure it out. although i’m already leaning toward the 2 light rei solution, which comes in about $40 for the both.

thanks to all for the info, you’re really going to make my running more enjoyable this summer: i went running for a couple of hours when it was 102º and absolutely got baked, kentucky fried zombie style. then was back out at 5 am today and got greeted by the wonderful soothing fog coming over pleasanton ridge. and while i realize you have to run in the heat in order to be able to run in the heat, i really have to draw the line at 100 degrees. so it looks like i may be doing a lot of night running this summer.

so sarah, i assume you’re doing the night running as part of the planning for the pctr midweek midnight run summer series. which is good, i always felt pctr needed more mid-week late-night events...

hmmm, maybe this thread is ready to generate 3 new threads:

1. where is there to run at night without getting eaten, beaten, or run over?
2. any other pctr loons interested in night running?
and
3. hey, did you hear that sarah announced the pctr midnight run summer series?

[katemojo]

No, did not hear about the pctr midnight run summer series..what/when/where?

[Pacific Coast Trail Runs]

Oh, man...what have I gotten myself into?!?! I don't think that there are enough hours in the day (or night) or days in the year for us to start a midnight series.

But I bet that you could find some people to do night runs with on this list - night runs are the best!! ;D

Sarah

[grumbles]

despite my attempts to send this thread spiraling off topic, the advice was fantastic, and the solution seems clear:
led handheld with the photon as backup.

1. backup light:
photon micro light wins: since these weigh nothing and take up no room, and since this little thing is the difference between changing batteries in the dark (in the mud in the rain), or being able to see what you’re doing, seems to me to be an essential part of getting around at night.

although the material cost on these things is ~$1, $15 still seems cheap for something you hope to never have to use but it better work when you do. that said, i think i’d pay the extra rather than get a super cheapo off brand from fry’s.

so i think the only question here is where is the cheapest place to get them? rei has them at $16, amazon for about the same. photon.com offers a quantity discount but it’s not much.

2. handheld light
from what i can tell, handheld is the only choice. but this is really good news because it means that whatever you use can also be used as a flashlight, unlike the cyclist led headlamp thingies. so even if it doesn’t work out for running, at least i end up with a cool flashlight.

from here the path diverges in all directions. the gerber light that kent recommended (~$40), looks like it could be used to pound nails and is rated at 100 hour burn time at 51 lumens, which seems real bright. Beat’s choice, Fenix L2D-CE, burns at an amazing 135 lumens but has a shorter battery life, although it has 2 power modes and can burn a lot longer at the lower setting. that seems to make a lot of sense. sarah’s choice of Princeton Tec Impact II LED Flashlight (who names these things?) comes in at $24 or so, 50+ hours burn time, not sure how bright...

my plan? head to rei and get sarah’s recommendations. and if the princeton isn’t bright enough, then i’ll check out the tactical lights that were suggested.

thanks for all the input on this,
pat m

[Pacific Coast Trail Runs]

ZombieRunner sells the 14 LED light that we use when we REALLY want a bright light - but they carry the green and ours are white:

www.zombierunner.com/store/product14.html

[fredx]

Relative to the other costs of the 100-miler, a good light didn't seem quite so extravagant, so I splurged on the Fenix L2D (ZombieRunner recommendation). Before that, I used my 1-watt LED headlamp. The headlamp didn't work at all for me because of the total lack of depth perception with it. Now that I've got the Fenix, I'm spoiled! On max brightness, I can see everything perfectly. It's da bomb. :-)

The other thing I did was to buy some high-capacity NiMH rechargeable AA batteries. The latest rechargeables have significantly more capacity than alkalines. Again, it was pricey, but I don't buy batteries any more.

The only problem I've got with night runs any more are all the d**n skunks on San Bruno Mountain near me! So far I haven't had to bathe with tomato juice after my runs, but it's been close...

- Fred

[ultrajegi]

In terms of the 14 LED, it lasts a long time (I have the green version), but it is far less bright than the newer lights (the L2D-CE is at its high setting 3 times brighter at a runtime of 6.5 hrs, and at the max setting 5 times brighter according to flashlightreviews) and a bit heavy. I've run with the Princeton Tec handheld mentioned in this thread as well, and it's a very useable light, lasts for a long time, too, and is pretty small, and reasonably bright.

As for headlamps, I've ran with a headlamp for large parts of HURT, and used a handheld only on downhills - worked fine for me. But the headlamps I used are also very bright - that always helps

On another note, the new PCTR socks are great!

Beat

[Pacific Coast Trail Runs]

Oh, I'm sure that the 14 we use is not the 'latest and greatest' - we got 'em years ago. Honestly, there are very few trails where anything but the small 3 LED is needed. I'm not sure what I will use at Wasatch - although it will be a handheld only. I don't think I'd get more than a few hundred feet with a headlamp on my head.

Hey, glad that you like the socks, Beat! ;D Thanks for letting me know!!

And maybe now Pat will be happy that we've successfully changed this thread away from lights, at least temporarily.

Sarah

[grumbles]

And off-topic not a minute too soon:

i see one of the other threads talking about the upcoming "No Trespassing? What does that mean?" midnight runs. will these be part of the regular pctr midnight runner series, or something else altogether?