Redwood Park

[DRDTbone]

Howdy all,
My name is Tony and I signed (in January) up for the Redwood Park 50k that's coming up in a week or so. Well, injuries and (insert other excuses here) prevented me from training through February and I didn't officially start training for this after a jiu jitsu tournament that I was doing in mid March. Regardless, here I am with the run a week or so away and I'm contemplating dropping down to the 30k. The past two Sundays I've completed 19-20 mile runs with something like 3000' of elevation gain each, however, at the end I'm extremely gassed and not sure how much more is bearable. Weather during the runs has been 95 or so toward the end of the run and they're all 100% exposure to the sun being in the AZ mountains (no trees!).

I feel I'm ~5-6 miles short of where I should be on my long run leading up to the race, and I fear that my conditioning isn't quite where it should be for a 50k given my condition at the end of the runs. I'm on the fence in terms of where to go with this one. Obviously, if trail-running/50k's were easy, everyone would do it. I'm thinking about doing some steep running work (1000' gain, 5-6 times) this weekend to see if I can get a good workout in a week before the race as some additional help. Any thoughts? I'm sure many of you can relate to the pride thing of not wanting to back down from what you initially set out to achieve, but I'm looking for some advice, personal experiences, etc. that any of you have to help me put my situation into perspective.

Thanks
Tony

[kreider]

Hi:

This won't directly answer your question, but...

First, take my comments with a grain of salt as this will be my first attempt at 5OK.

The 20 K loop (which will be done 2x) really only has 2 major, continuous climbs which are both to get up to the same ridge. If you just plan on power walking these climbs and that should help save your legs a whole bunch.

Also, you could just see how you feel after the first 20K and then after 30K and drop out at the start / finish if things aren't going well. You'll know exactly what your in for by the 30Km mark :-)

Cheers
-Scott

[mweston]

Officially if you're going to drop down to the shorter distance you're supposed to do it no later than when you check in. But that's mainly for the points series, so if you don't care about that, you can drop during the race.

But here's the real question: How long did the 19-20 miles with 3000' take you? You have 9 hours for the 50K, and continuing to move forward even after you're "extremely gassed" is part of what ultras are all about. Given the high temperatures during your run, you will probably be fine here. Even if it is that hot (unlikely), it should at least be more covered. [Note that I have not done this race, but I have done Sequoia several times, and there's some overlap.]

[DRDTbone]

Those runs both took me about 3 hours 45 minutes to do, so it looks like I'll at least hit the aid station at the 30 km mark in time

[GM]

Tony,

Go for it. Your assessment is correct and your long runs are probably a little short. However, you won't have anywhere near the heat or sun exposure that you've had in AZ during your long runs. As I recall from both the Sequoia and Redwood course segments I've done, you'll be covered by trees much of the time. Being the contrarian here, don't go into the run thinking you'll drop at 30K if it's too tough. It will be. You might as well just downgrade to the 30K now. Or, prepare to go for the 50K and make whatever course adjustments you need to (ie start a little slower, walk the hills, eat/drink more, etc.) to finish. One more thing: don't overdo it this weekend. You are one week out and need every bit of leg strength you can get. Good luck!

[atlantatrailsdave]

I agree with all of the above: go ahead and give it a go. You wouldn't be the first one to drop down during a race. I know this for a fact ;D

I would take it easy on the first 20k and then see how you feel during the middle 10k, which has some short, steep climbs that will test your legs. By the time you're done with the 30k, you'll have finished the toughest section of the course and you will know exactly what is ahead of you.

Good luck!

[DRDTbone]

Thanks so much everyone! That sounds like the best idea is to give the 30 a go and see how I'm doing and go from there. Either way, should be a gorgeous setting (I'm sick of dodging lizards and cacti) and a great time, hope to see you all there!

Tony

[G]

First of all, what's the big f###ing deal about running a 50K in the first place. Is it a need to say you've run an ultra? For some, it's as much a hike as a run anyway.

Weigh a run/hike 50 against the pleasure you'll have running a much faster 30K. Would you rather go at a much slower pace and walk a lot to finish the 50? or would you rather race the 30K, finish 2 1/2 hours earlier and get to the chili first? You can always do a 50km, when you can do it in the style you'd like (better than a 13 minute mile, for instance?)

I think you are wise assessing where you are in your training now. I was really beat down a few weeks ago, so I cut back from the 50KM to the marathon at STTS. I was glad I did because I was able to race at a faster pace rather than holding back. I still tanked at 22 miles, but managed to come in with a good race despite that, because I didn't have to hold back for the extra 4+miles and extra long grade up. If I'd done the 50K, I wouldn't have had fun and would have tanked 10 miles from the finish (but still would have won my age group, because the others were slow from the start).

A 30KM race is done faster than a 50KM, so it's just as valid. Usain Bolt only runs 100 meters, but makes that race extremely significant. The whole fascination with bigger is better is silly. It's the same thing as the 5'4" guy that gets a jacked up monster pickup and a pitbull. You don't need to prove anything to anyone.

Don't let other people make your running decisions for you. If you're running to please others, it will become a job, rather than fun.

[G2]

Well, I don't know if this is your first 50K or your 10th, but if it's your first, you'll never be ready. You'll wonder if you trained hard enough, have the right hydration/eating/electrolyte plan, are wearing the right shoes for the trail, are going to puke or cramp halfway through, etc. Don't worry, be happy. This is supposed to be enjoyable and healthy, and whether you come in first or 200th doesn't matter (unless they run out of chili).

There's a time and place for a year's worth of bragging rights however. Just don't exercise these rights with fellow trail runners. Also critical is to keep dropping the word, "ultra" in the conversation (just like Lance Armstrong's endorsement of Michelob Ultra beer - seems to work for him). And finally, mention your time -- slower is better, as it is much more impressive to have endured a 7 hour race than simply finished in 4 hours (unless of course you win the race, win your gender or win your age group).

Of course, I'm kidding and don't advocate any of the actions in the last paragraph.

However, I do believe that you are already reasonably trained, especially well trained for the heat, and if the 50K is important to you, give it a go.

If for whatever reason you don't do as well as you want, you'll be that much more prepared for the next one and you'll still have your coaster and t-shirt!

Good luck!

[G]

Tony

The second part of your post asks whether you should do a hard hill workout 1 week before your race. Why?

If you aren't trained for hills now, that one workout isn't going to change that significantly. But it might cause you to break down entirely.

Rules of tapering for road races apply to trail races. A marathon is usually accorded a 3 week taper. A half marathon about 10 days. The general rule is a day of taper for every 2KM of race, but trail races are tougher because of the hills. So, why taper less?

Whether you race 30 KM or 50 KM, 5000 to 6000 feet of hill intervals are too tough a workout, for most mortals, in the last week. It would be like a marathoner trying to squeeze one more 22 mile run in one week before his race. You risk injury, sickness and lack of total recovery for what?

You seem to be saying you want to race 50 KM hard, not just finish it. That's a good reason for considering a shorter distance. Some people love to be out all day and do an ultra. Other people want to go fast(er). People have different personalities, as well as different physical capabilities.

For a long time (still for most) runners felt they had to validate themselves by running a marathon. Shorter distances like the half marathon didn't get any respect. Even the great Florence Joyner, after her Olympic success, decided to become a marathoner. After she ran a 5 KM race she gave up that notion. She was a sprinter, not a distance runner.

We have the same thing going on today in trail running. You're nothing if you don't run Ultras. A few special people can race (not just finish) ultra distances. Most shuffle along. That's perfectly valid if they enjoy it. But others aren't suited for it.

Whatever you do, don't put pressure on yourself to perform. Either plan to finish your 50, or plan to race your 30. I'm concerned when you say "...I'm extremely gassed and not sure how much more is bearable...". You're heading for major burnout friend. Instead of that monster Hill interval workout with a week to go, take a casual run with a slower friend or two and enjoy it thoroughly. I guarantee you'll feel better on race day.

[DRDTbone]

Hey all,
Thanks for the input. I'm sorry if I didn't come of clearly in the beginning; I'm not looking to shatter any records or set any trails on fire with speed, just want to finish a 50k in a reasonable amount of time. Why 50k? Because it's a challenge for me and I think it'd be fun to do. Hoping to see you all out there for a great day in the Redwoods!

Tony