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Post by justin on Mar 9, 2008 15:27:00 GMT -5
Hi all,
I'm doing my first races ever this year. Two are the PCTR Forest Park 5/25 and Angel Island 7/5 races, but I'm also doing the Timberline Marathon at Mt. Hood on 9/13. The longest distance I've ever run was 14 miles but that was about 2.5 years ago. For my training (up to 10 miles now), I've been relying on both my personal trainer and a co-worker whose been running for 35 years. However, I'm wondering about training for trail marathons. I've looked at Hal Higdon's book and web site and I'm wondering how, if at all, trail marathon training would differ from road races. Obviously I want to train as much as possible on trails (which I've not really been doing yet for various reasons but will start soon), but from a distance perspective, should I be training about the same as I would if it were for a regular road race?
Thanks,
Justin
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Post by hippietrainer on Mar 9, 2008 20:52:52 GMT -5
Hi Justin,
Glad to hear you're hitting the trails. Putting in the mileage(or time) appropriate to your event will be similiar to road marathon training, however you will definitely benefit from training as much as possible on the trails. Don't get too caught up in keeping track of your pace per mile, since terrain differences can change pace dramatically. Be sure to get your long runs in on the trails, since this type of training will be most specific to your event, and it will insure that your leg muscles are adapted to the uneven terrain of the trails. Other things to practice are fueling strategies,ie. what you'll eat(gels, shot blocks, bars), hydrating, and elecrolyte replacement (if you are going to be out more than 3 hours, especially in hot weather). For your long runs and event, start out slow and don't be afraid to walk when your legs are tired, especially uphill, as it gives your muscles a little break and may help you down the trail to finish a bit stronger. If you would like more specific help, including an individualized mileage program to get you to the start strong and healthy, check out our Online Coaching service. Good luck in your training and hope to meet you out on the trail.
Online Coach Brian
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Post by justin on Mar 9, 2008 22:37:04 GMT -5
Brian,
Thanks for the feedback. I should clarify that I have done and greatly prefer trail running. The only reason I'm running on pavement at all right now has been for convenience, but with Spring approaching (sort of - I'm in Colorado!), the trails should be easier to hit. However, most of the trails I've been on were in Northern Virginia, which had such beautiful trees, hence my desire to enter the races in Oregon.
I may very well be in touch about a customized training program.
Thanks again,
Justin
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Post by thr3ee on Mar 10, 2008 12:06:44 GMT -5
By the way, having just run the bulk of the Diablo Marathon course as a training run, I would add that knowing the particular trail where you would be running will greatly effect your training. For example, if you were to take on something like Diablo as a trail marathon, I would suggest a medium difficulty trail 50K first.  Much respect to Sarah and Wendell on a brutal, but very cool course. I can't wait for the 50 miler! |
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Post by mweston on Mar 10, 2008 17:05:02 GMT -5
By the way, having just run the bulk of the Diablo Marathon course as a training run, I would add that knowing the particular trail where you would be running will greatly effect your training. For example, if you were to take on something like Diablo as a trail marathon, I would suggest a medium difficulty trail 50K first. I was considering the Diablo marathon as a preparation for a 50K later in the year, but the elevation profile gave me pause. And your message isn't giving me much encouragement... |
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Post by thr3ee on Mar 10, 2008 17:40:58 GMT -5
I was considering the Diablo marathon as a preparation for a 50K later in the year, but the elevation profile gave me pause. And your message isn't giving me much encouragement... Unless the 50K was something along the lines of Ohlone, Mt. Diablo or Carmel Valley, I think that the Diablo Marathon would take you longer than most 50K races and even if it didn't it still might beat you up more. It's sort of like using the Diablo 50-miler as a training run for Miwok 100K. Most people take longer in Diablo than Miwok. Of course, that doesn't mean you shouldn't sign up for both races ;D |
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Post by katemojo on Mar 10, 2008 17:55:17 GMT -5
My daughter and I just did (kind of) the 25k course of the Mt Diablo race as a training run on Saturday, but took some wrong turns and it was longer. It is a tough course- up, up, up hill, then down, down down. Feeling it today  |
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Post by Pacific Coast Trail Runs on Mar 10, 2008 18:10:57 GMT -5
I'm SO glad that you got out on the marathon course, Steve! Don't you just LOVE the Mitchell Rock/Eagle Peak start to that course?! I can hardly wait 'til you see the whole 50 miles - it really goes to some great parts of the mountain! Were you out there by yourself? Your old stompin' grounds...
Sarah
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Post by Pacific Coast Trail Runs on Mar 10, 2008 18:16:52 GMT -5
Yeah, if you look at the course records for the Diablo Marathon, they're approximately equal to those same people's typical 50 Km times...
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Post by thr3ee on Mar 10, 2008 18:38:35 GMT -5
I'm SO glad that you got out on the marathon course, Steve! Don't you just LOVE the Mitchell Rock/Eagle Peak start to that course?! I can hardly wait 'til you see the whole 50 miles - it really goes to some great parts of the mountain! Were you out there by yourself? Your old stompin' grounds... Sarah Sarah, I really enjoyed the course, but to be honest I still am not sure how closely I followed a few parts of it. I printed out maps and your course directions and then promptly left them at home. While I grew up on the mountain it was on the "back" side and most of my youthful wanderings were on unnamed trails on private land so I don't really know the trails that well (though I have met some of the people for whom a couple are named). My plan was to follow the course, but go to Rock City after Juniper and then hit the South Peak only once. I think I went a little different way up Eagle Peak though I really enjoyed that peak. I also don't know about the course in/through Rock City. I wandered around and then did an out-and-back on Devil's Slide. I also took a wrong turn on the way down and accidentally finished at Regency Gate totally dry, but some kind hiker gave me some water and told me it was just over a mile to Mitchell Canyon. By the way, I didn't know if the course went all the way to the top of North Peak and I'm glad to see the map doesn't. That last 100 yards is pretty ridiculous! I've only been up there once before a long time ago and didn't remember that last little bit of 30%+ grade. However, it might be good hill repeats for Wendell's Barkley prep. Finally, I think my favorite place on the whole trail was Mt. Olympia. I hit this around 19 miles and it was so quiet and peaceful with unique views that I just sat down and took a little rest for a few minutes. Incredible! |
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Post by pctrailruns on Mar 10, 2008 20:48:40 GMT -5
I'm SO glad that you got out on the marathon course, Steve! Don't you just LOVE the Mitchell Rock/Eagle Peak start to that course?! I can hardly wait 'til you see the whole 50 miles - it really goes to some great parts of the mountain! Were you out there by yourself? Your old stompin' grounds... Sarah Sarah, I really enjoyed the course, but to be honest I still am not sure how closely I followed a few parts of it. I printed out maps and your course directions and then promptly left them at home. While I grew up on the mountain it was on the "back" side and most of my youthful wanderings were on unnamed trails on private land so I don't really know the trails that well (though I have met some of the people for whom a couple are named). My plan was to follow the course, but go to Rock City after Juniper and then hit the South Peak only once. I think I went a little different way up Eagle Peak though I really enjoyed that peak. I also don't know about the course in/through Rock City. I wandered around and then did an out-and-back on Devil's Slide. I also took a wrong turn on the way down and accidentally finished at Regency Gate totally dry, but some kind hiker gave me some water and told me it was just over a mile to Mitchell Canyon. By the way, I didn't know if the course went all the way to the top of North Peak and I'm glad to see the map doesn't. That last 100 yards is pretty ridiculous! I've only been up there once before a long time ago and didn't remember that last little bit of 30%+ grade. However, it might be good hill repeats for Wendell's Barkley prep. Finally, I think my favorite place on the whole trail was Mt. Olympia. I hit this around 19 miles and it was so quiet and peaceful with unique views that I just sat down and took a little rest for a few minutes. Incredible! Hi, Steve, Yes, I actually wheeled to the summit of North Peak but deemed it "cruel and unusual punishment" . Can you imagine going up, and down, that grade after 43 miles!! Throw in some sawbriars and it would be the Barkley section. Mt. Olympia and the Zippe Trail at night are pretty amazing, too. Wendell (PCTR) |
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Post by marissaw on Mar 12, 2008 16:28:35 GMT -5
I naively tackled a portion of the marathon course last Sunday, and I learned that you should be afraid, very afraid, of trails with the word "peak" in it (sorta like trails with the word "steep" in it, a la Stinson Beach).
It was also entertaining to leave the Summit, only to climb (from the Summit to North Peak - there's that work "peak" again...). It seemed physically impossible to go uphill both ways.
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Post by thr3ee on Mar 12, 2008 16:56:10 GMT -5
I naively tackled a portion of the marathon course last Sunday, and I learned that you should be afraid, very afraid, of trails with the word "peak" in it (sorta like trails with the word "steep" in it, a la Stinson Beach). It was also entertaining to leave the Summit, only to climb (from the Summit to North Peak - there's that work "peak" again...). It seemed physically impossible to go uphill both ways. Excellent! When were you out there? I was all over that mountain on Sunday afternoon. |
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Post by thr3ee on Mar 12, 2008 17:43:00 GMT -5
Hi, Steve, Yes, I actually wheeled to the summit of North Peak but deemed it "cruel and unusual punishment" . Can you imagine going up, and down, that grade after 43 miles!! Throw in some sawbriars and it would be the Barkley section. Hmm...since when did you start backing away from "cruel and unusual punishment" in your courses, Wendell? Since I was moving at about a 1 mile / min. pace after only 18 miles, I could imagine crawling up it after 43. The real problem would be the utter carnage as people tried to head down that rock-strewn slope. If it were covered in dirt rather than rocks you could at least do a buttslide! |
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andyb
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by andyb on Mar 13, 2008 10:18:44 GMT -5
Hi, Steve, Yes, I actually wheeled to the summit of North Peak but deemed it "cruel and unusual punishment" . Can you imagine going up, and down, that grade after 43 miles!! Throw in some sawbriars and it would be the Barkley section. Hmm...since when did you start backing away from "cruel and unusual punishment" in your courses, Wendell? Since I was moving at about a 1 mile / min. pace after only 18 miles, I could imagine crawling up it after 43. The real problem would be the utter carnage as people tried to head down that rock-strewn slope. If it were covered in dirt rather than rocks you could at least do a buttslide! Wow, a 1 mile/min pace is pretty incredible (some might even say record-breaking), whether starting out, or at 18 miles. I think you are sandbagging, Steve, when you say you are a "mid-packer"! ;D |
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